Auto Sales: Life After Clunkers?

" That would love people keep buying cars but I'm unfortunately there they're just pushing forward -- my daughter for instance was a good example of someone who was not going to buy car for a couple years. She had a clunker I said yeah I don't know there's going to be a deal in two years maybe should take you now that's what she did. But that's the -- not going to happen now for 56 years again."

" Overall though do you think that was a great program that -- give incentives to people like your daughter who bought are now versus later."

" Well. I it's hard for me to say that is not a good program if people are are stimulating the auto industry Detroit but I don't think it's going to have any major effect on the economy if that was being -- And go back."

" Now for a moment. -- Michael Michael Abydos with spot away from out and in Troy Michigan two to talk to your original point I -- to get off that would be the breaking Ford news but did the idea. Bob the the baby boom generation is getting older the demographics. The the economy in the market are shifting and you think the longer term effects of that there's an investment are --"

" While it in the short term I think we're going to have a dramatic. Decline in the market much beyond what anybody's expecting are expecting that the recession is over this is just to vote for reprieve. Of bombs off of very dismal bottoms. That weren't the -- bottoms the ultimate -- We look back and we studied the 1930s. The same type of thing happen -- generation stop spending money after tremendous technological boom. And the market went down 80%. Other -- leveraging process is already started it's very hard to turn that around. The next problem's going to be the credit to leverage in the credit card problems that that people are facing because they're now working. Unemployment numbers we compared them to the Great Depression. Unemployment numbers and I mean by measuring the same whether they used to measure them that. Are already worse. Than they were at this time frame from the beginning of the decline. And seem to be continuing to increase. In Michigan I would assume that the unemployment rate if they measure it by the methods that the -- in the Great Depression would be close to 30% right now."

" Michael is fundamental problem that we're going to see in the economy considering -- Consumer Spending is the primary engine of the US economy what you're saying is that not only the baby boomers pulling back. But other generation to generation acts. -- generation YA -- never ever want consumers across the board and so how then do we move forward if we do have a an economy that's so. Focused -- so reliant on consumer shelling out money to purchase goods and services. If they're not going to do that then where does recover."

" Very come from. That it doesn't come from anybody but the consumer. There will come a time 35. Years from the peak. When the next generation. Starts raising families. And have to spend months. And adds to the generation next that we already have so when the millennial generation. And generate -- generation X are making up a significant enough for the population and they're raising families because families half. To spend money there is no choices many times when you're spending money. That's what's going to pull us out of this decline and unfortunately that's probably not going to happen to sometime between 2011. And 2014. Starts that the."

" What other way that's number years away and I always like to ask our guests this that. It ended in countries have our let's assume you're right you've laid out your -- you're right about this how are you investing money based upon. That -- suck and if people agree with you what they do about it."

" While there it's it's very simple you trashed the buy and hold strategy mean Bob buy and -- doesn't get you anywhere of the market moves sideways for a decade. If we look at the period between 1966. And 1982 the Dow came close to a thousand about five times. But over seventeen years didn't break a thousand. If you spread out cross your fingers and hope for the best you make no money during that period you're gonna have to become more educated. He's going to have to be more active in your investing and you're gonna have to try to take advantage of the upturn is that the market presides. Public you're gonna have to be very wary -- going to have to good to be it not going to be able to be greedy like you were in the ninety's in the early two thousands."

" Like floating out that this situation -- deficit is growing a lot of people are assuming that taxes are gonna have to be raised eventually and so the and puts it it'll be good looking for in terms of their investments in terms of how they're planning for their retirement how to plan for their future. Given the fact that we have this growing deficit our economy and also we could see a higher tax. Environment down -- road."

" Well what they should be looking for are higher taxes and what they should be doing about that is not just trying to manage -- might make money. But manage their money to avoid taxes going forward. If tax brackets increase significantly enhance our position that there will increase significantly. Then anything you can do to make your portfolio more tax efficient. It's gonna help just as much as getting higher rate of return on the market. And essentially that's what we tell our clients' most advisers out there are saying you know you need to get a good return you need to hang in there you need to do the best that you can. On your investments and hope for the balance. If you do well. The problem is going to be keeping the money away from the government. And there are tremendous strategies that you can use to make your portfolio more tax efficient if you make 10% of market that's no different than saving 10% on your taxes. And we try to do both for our clients -- enough."

" You Michael thank you for coming out today and particularly welcome thanks for having me Michael -- you know there with his thoughts from out in not Detroit area. We're being off financial group and I think -- you know the next topic -- up in the second is is almost related to it is because people do want. This ideas Michael's alluding to a saint Vincent and safe and right whether its -- hold or something else and medical centers -- always there."

" I don't ticket would -- says people are going to get more educated. That that idea of buy and to stick to what hit them and get a hold for a long term. A lot of people we pass on recently when I've had been here at an event that strategies. Gone you know -- it's it's gotta be rethought at least none you have to be more involving you have to know more about where your investments are and and really you know we can't just sort of be complacent."

" Well one of the places that people look we'll talk to when they India they want to be. Safe for them or their or their will but scared is the bond market and our next guess is on to say you've got to be careful there too because that's not all it's cracked up to date that much more remember -- the classic cars slot or still to come fox this -- dot -- life."

" You kind of wonder if -- this market down 150 plus points on the Dow today despite the better than expected manufacturing data. Is somebody like how Michael and housing data to be like Michael we just had on -- on to something in this is really the start of this big downward trend that a lot of people have been. Expecting and some people have even been hoping for after the big run we've had right."

" And never with that you just don't go up in a straight line to lead we expect to see some sort of pull back and it's not unusual to see it in September -- a lot of people are bracing. For."

" A little bit of wheat that's going forward Kansas said just a moment ago on people brace for those -- these are there weren't a lot of times they moved to the safe haven of bonds -- the supposed safe haven of bonds -- at a very joins us from first. Opposite the devices that an LA to tell us right Tom that that may not be the best idea is that right. That is correct why's that. Well if you look back at it say that ten year treasury bond and you look at its median yield over the last. Fifty some odd years fifty plus years spent about six point 2%. And it's roughly somewhere around three and three and a half today. So we just sort of went to an analysis it's -- what if we go back to those median levels over the next three or five years and someone has invested in the ten year treasury. They're total return. Could be anywhere from negative if -- after the three year period to a very small positive return of only about 1% on an annual basis. If it took five years to get there now it took one -- to get there. The returns and because tremendous negatives but that's probably not a high probability of so why are -- at risk now. They're at risk for because rates have gone far too. So low and aren't there -- fundamental basis you've got a tremendous amount of money. That is going to bond mutual funds this year not to tremendous amount really into the stock mutual fund business it's sort of flat. And they've been chasing bonds is a place that they feel -- been a safe haven. And we're looking at this going -- you really -- is something and you've driven its price up beyond its fundamental valuation. And so we're extremely concerned looking out that bonds are going to be sort of a lesser performing asset going forward. Okay so how do you go about sort of protect yourself Tom from that if you if if that's the view because. Again to go back to the original premise you want to look to the bond market or people do look to it. Such -- treasuries as up place to go when they're able to scared to what they do it said. What you need to do wish you need to shorten maturities and make sure at this point we would say you shouldn't have maturities beyond five years where you sit up bonds whether they're treasuries or whether other agencies whether their high grade corporate bonds. That mature in less than five years 234 years that's for one. Except the lower yield in exchange for the -- preservation and protection of your capital NC she'll have a positive return. When rates go against you intend to rise."

" So it because. I have heard is that bond set their price in the market why wouldn't yields rise as investors dumped them."

" As investors dump them if they prefer to go into the stock market saying they've they've heard not stone bond's price of bond will fall yield will rise that that is true. There's less of that going on if you shorten down immaturity. The -- of things we found very interest in this little lettuce to this to look at seriously was -- fact if you look at the past 25 years. If you bought the S&P 500 but if you just want the ten year treasury bonds those were your two options. You would have been better off a feud on the ten year treasury bond. Bonds have outperformed stocks so we start to look forward don't know this probably isn't going to continue the opposite will tend to be true okay so renewed. Are looking at this receive that this analysis together what's your view by the way on the economy just in terms of that you know far far back to see how you look at things and Michael was just talking about how this is big. Downturn that's coming this way he sees in the stock we'll follow now retired but the bond market. What Chilean economy. Our view of the economy is you've probably ended what is being a classic recession where okay you've got negative GDP. But you're gonna have zeroed very anemic growth going forward for an extended period time could be 234 years. Has been well documented you have a consumer and it's highly levered that is need to -- lever themselves. There need to increase their savings and those two events means they're going to spend less. It would appear that tax policy is going to be higher tax rates were higher tax rates equate to less after tax. Income available for the consumer again another decline in spending and the consumer at this point has been about 7071%. Of economic activity. So your main driver is here and savings mode. Partisan mode where they're going to see taxes increased so you're probably looking at those people's spending less so we look at the economy going forward in -- at best is what we --"

" He says that the Pope should be careful up there some risk what even investment grade corporate bonds that -- fair bit better."

" There are better but they're not great now we did the same analysis and we civil what if that. Look at this is longer term corporate -- sort of things ten years and longer as -- if they return to their median level of spread that they had. Fell last fifty years and treasury did the same and you return was still one half to 3%. Not great probably not greater than inflation. But at least it was it was better than the treasury market. So from a relative standpoint investment grade corporates are somewhat better again I go back and we would say if you going to invest in that area being inside of five years be short maturity. Except the lower returned to protect your capital and it should do somewhat better. Van being at a treasury treasury bond is an example -- comments are coming together -- Michael was talking about with religious stock market what Thomas time of the release of the bond market in terms of being nimble and having to adjust."

" Cut to the time to -- a tough. I mean this is obviously -- you're really it's tough to make money here yet or seen anything like this time even if you're wrong in terms of your assessment economy and it's a little bit better than indymac still up. Difficult environment in which even if the economy recovers to actually take advantage and and know how to how to play it right."

" Yes and is as far as I've been doing this since the early eighties and I've not seen anything to the degree that I'm looking at today. Your previous guests had talked about looking back at the thirty's I don't think there's many investors out Saturday that there were found in the thirties a look at. Yes this is a huge change in invest the investing world. If you just think dividend terms of we've been and a Consumer Spending mode and consumer leveraging mode for twenty plus years. And now we may be up in a consumer savings mode and consumer dealer remote tremendous change in the U."

" Good one of the reasons I bring it up is that there's an editorial -- if you saw this morning Allan Meltzer wrote the economist in The Wall Street Journal who says that all these comparisons you brought up well our previous -- as you said from the thirty. That god this is the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression he says Bob this is over done the media making too much of -- the politicians are playing it up. So that there's more you know political will if you if you will for four more stimulus in these types of things basis overdone that this is not as bad as people are saying. -- right."

" I would say this is as bad as is is is what people are saying I don't think they've. They've gone over the top of this that we you know this is a very serious recession. Is it a Great Depression no. Does -- have other elements to -- we haven't seen before we've not dealt with the kind of developing countries such as China which is a trend of tremendous growth mode. And just to say it you know you were talking about changes before and things investors need to be aware of we now -- a situation where the developing world is lending money to the developed world. We've not had that before the past it was the other way around. That being is the Chinese are lending us money in order for us to support our lifestyle. That's it and it completely different situation that we've seen before sort of look at it and say that things aren't as bad as we think well you know when your. Primary lenders the Chinese and you're trying to borrow. Trillions of dollars you're looking at a deficit the next five years it could be anywhere cumulative for a fortified trillion dollar number. That's a tremendous amount of uncertainty a tremendous amount of change and yes it is going to have some serious consequences to to the economic activity in the country to around other mark."

" It does not like uncertainty and then looking ahead to him a lot of MarketWatch above economists are saying inflation is something there. Got there on down ended that we certainly will see rates had revenues baby towards the end of the year what is your outlook on inflation is that something you're worried about."

" This -- Well as the bond investing you should always be worried about inflation."

" I think in our view you sort of reached the bottom whether it's this sort of 2% sort of number for poor. CPI that's about as low as it's gonna probably go. So if that's his lowest it's probably going to go and you looking at the amount of money that's been -- the system try to get it to the economy to move. The demands on on things such as oil and and other resources. Our view is is it up I looked out three to five here why wouldn't surprise me to see the inflation in this country have a 3% handle -- not a tremendously high number. But one of which doesn't equate to the level of bond yields that you see today that he's gone -- guy tells --"

" I don't get -- the -- investors that what you're hereby -- how investors are playing that version that would should -- be nothing meant."

" Well as of you can tell the picture I painted. Worn out one of things of the bond market has tremendous attractive place to be is its foreign treasuries and high grade corporates. Investors should be looking more towards equities looking towards investments that will. Do well environment that's maybe higher inflationary will do well -- an environment where savings is is is a higher component of the economic activity in this country. If you're in a bond market. Maybe not today I don't think today's time to do it. The high yield market which is more equity like probably going to offer you better returns looking out. Then things like treasuries. -- to stocks outperform bonds -- sounds like you do believe the economy again as anemic as you described earlier will recover because those that are. Really worried about falling back off a cliff the W whatever you want to call it. They're still worried it has talked to some of them last few days about deflation not inflation do you think the economy recover enough for the lead to this inflationary environment right. Yes well quite frankly if you're gonna get out of the message your and we need to grow our way out of it. We need to grow and safe. So we've got to figure out what plans and policies we can put in place that can give is that and that's why it's sort of -- narrow right because we're saving at the same time. Yes it's slow growth. It's pretty difficult. From two aspects if you look at one banks really don't have the willingness and ability to lend money and right now the consumer really doesn't have the willingness in the ability to borrow money. Will those two people in that bill goes into constituents in that situation. Economy's going to grow very slowly."

" He went our viewers want to bring in Harris talking about some lessons we can learn about past. Recessions past crashes in the incident saying what can we learn from the 1987. Pullback that we thought that maybe have relevant to today and you -- that New York."

" The relevancy when you looked at 1987. That was driven by. And equity strategy which everyone wanted to participate in it once and he had a very violent decline. The lesson I think you learned from that is is that we continue to have is the solution that the Fed came up with ways to put in easy money. Lower short term interest rates to stimulate activity to counteract the stock market. That's what Greenspan's reaction was to that he then proceeded to do that again several times what it was long term capital management whether it was after. They're you know dot com bubble of 2000. And each and every one of those built more leverage into the system so eleven the last I think you need we need to learn is. That may not be the best thing to do when the economy turns down is to throw tons of money which is what Bernanke is done them in his view. Because you're just setting yourself up. For potentially another bubble out in the future. And you still haven't solved the problem of delivering your economy what's up next bubbles in his visit somebody I think that describe as a kind of debt bubble I know what what's the next the next bubble that we go to after. Technology how is saying and then what if you're right. Well one of the things we think if you see is that on a small scale to some degree if you -- a tremendous amount of money at the treasury market lower treasury rates to unsustainable levels. Why shouldn't they be back more towards 56% -- ten year which by the way is where that yield was in the second quarter of 2000. Not that -- and then pass them. Did we do we've. You know put a bunch of money short term into stocks and high yield bonds it's unjustified for economic activity. Those are probably small bubbles I wish I knew the answer to -- next long term -- But I do know is effective fight stimulate the economy would trillions and trillions of dollars. That money will find a place. It'll probably find a place that'll cause a problem. Although that probably be three to five years now and we've proven that twice in the last ten years it's an okay top that yes Obama or his wife left him. I thought Tom thank you thank you Tom and Jerry."

" Is from first Pacific advisors out no later recovered stocks covered bonds seventh. Well we started to cover Carr's death of the war in just a moment the auto sales -- more upbeat -- and."

" That we can get off idea right off suicide watch here and move on to have a little bit of fun. So Ford's sales drop that stock by the way -- you bring the big board for -- that stock is down and so are stocks in general 168 points today despite better than expected. Economic data the selling beginning as the month of September does as well. Right on cue as they say. Are my favorite car buff is coming up next generally -- in the classic cars that she'd been looking at today and we have what we're still to come -- later on as well. Including a closer look at those auto sales figures foxbusiness.com -- RC -- look at these -- I can't wait you know Jenna we've asked our viewers you know our you know our viewers personally as I do from doing the show every day. To send in cops questions while you guys are aren't showing -- the cars and and you do an interview here in the maybe at the end. We'll throw you some of the questions but because these. Even from your your first report the the board the sliding up -- they're really looking forward to seeing what you have to show them so fire away from the public."

" Classic cars we have a couple cars. We have a couple cars you back to say -- I'm getting a little bit at that makes directions here in my ear so I'm just gonna -- Yukon if it is found me at. If you have any question they -- and they went that would be. And -- they're gonna do you basically as they told -- they classic yeah gimme a break -- classic car club New York. -- Manhattan and basically what happens is -- eight to 10000 dollar membership. And you get access to you about fifty different cards and sitting by one of them with a Ferrari I think I eager viewers that like this Lana street inside and just seconds well. But this is 200000 dollar car and get -- membership you want to drive this car you can go ahead and you can tell it. Let me say 8000 dollars is a lot of money you just do you say that -- currently -- Ferrari that you can buy your own car so why the car but actually doing. Good in every session as Jack Moseley and Mike personnel out. At last name right are at the executives peered down at the classic part of the Manhattan -- tells little about that so I'm Mike. I know why is why this is working during -- session."

" I think it's working because we do a couple of things to give people access to a lot of really great cars every -- you've ever wanted to drive we have here. Owning a -- your own is expensive especially right now since a lot of people with POWs porsches Honda is in the garage they're paying to park entertainment sure it campaign finance it. You can drive our entire collection really special cars for cheaper than owning quite a regulatory --"

" Okay but you know 20000 dollars snack -- and that's that's a lot of money you say August actually this this past month. -- actually a good month despite the successes in the cash for clunkers program."

" Right yeah we've we've been doing well this month it we're seeing. A 160%. Increase in revenue over 2007 and and acres -- just as well it's been it while while we have cut down our expenses and in response to the recession we've seen revenue is growing the enemy -- people. Love now that we've been we've been smarter battery services and the you can imagine -- you can give a couple guys. Funds go by a million dollars for the cars or total crazy for the -- we've tighten their belts amid this won't leaner. And and this service is only getting better as a result of business and it fit the membership is better revenues up Airgas can go."

" Good guys through leaning on actually this is a Ford GT -- guys talk a little bit about this carbonate Beyonce gave you want to get a shot. -- this Nissan over here is about the need -- this plan that's farther away from my. Is that one of the few Nissan's GTR this in America and I'm calling our our viewers -- they -- this this. Got villa begin that the monster from Japan my Grammy what's the big deal at this."

" Let's discuss -- president making them for a decades being Europe and in Asia but -- never for sale in America. This car the newest version of -- they've been marketing and all hot video games like country is known for his and so America's been waiting for a little for a long time. It has a lot of at the -- frightened city -- like that. There's like -- can't -- nitrogen is set of oxygen. When you when you drive it hard oxygen gets hot and expense change tire pressure nitrogen stays nice and stable source of packed with great sadness of it stops very quickly. It has the most sophisticated gearbox on the market right now says a lot of technology packed and."

" And that's -- I'm not yet had stayed at Bryant Feldman actually told me by the latest thought you know me well. And you get this part that its last twenty years Europe and Asia this is when the first month you can see here in the United States the Bryant was telling me. That it is actually a beasts to quote him I don't know if -- and the second Stephanie little piece -- science they take that. -- expert -- thought -- you know and that's why did come back pep talk on the other side if your site -- for the camera back I had this is before he hit this special act anniversary card."

" Yes is it 2005 for TT. This car was made at the hundredth anniversary of forests and also. Commemorating the fortieth anniversary the original TT forty of that car was built in sixty is. Purpose built to beat LaMont -- Ferrari at their own -- they did they did three years in a row. If the race card cut it it is it is a -- here it's a road going race card you know. Modern American super car and it holds up look like there is -- it suddenly pays for that for ours is competing."

" Popular might not ever hears about having this cargo is going to cost if you want to buy guys 165000. Dollars so. You know I if you want -- paid 8000 dollars then you're able to buy in the seventies or drive some of these really cool -- there any limit any. Tonight is coming take this -- I know this breaking teens say it's like a month there Patti mother."

" Can't you can take you for a day it's up to sixty is we're really flexible remembers that they needed for longer than sixty is -- and she's there was still on its you've definitely seen a car missing now have to come back. 1112 it is recalling that that -- And another let us know they you know their vacation got extended such fun."

" It's silly and is that what about insurance for example what about that."

" Everything's included membership. We we answer the cars we maintain the cars we -- store the cars here polyester junior members keep gas in the tank."

" Okay so what happens it now works like this not to give it 8000 dollars right he gets you -- I'm at a point sip ice -- 8000 dollars I mean we'll divide. Or drive. We borrow the classic cars right not yet clearly these lines."

" Right you you'll probably an opportunity get any of these loans because we do a lot of member events well we do you on track days and -- outing we'll get a bunch members gathered -- a couple super cars. And so chances aren't any level you get a -- drive all the cars. But you may not taking necessarily out of your membership of this starting level account you can you yet the by the points together and so how much at -- The first littlest 12000 dollars -- driving everything fleet."

" Okay all right what about -- the other thing about it choose to classically has you know the Nissan GTR the Tesla Roadster. It has modern modern classics and as well."

" Well what about women have many members are women they think the thought is right is the -- gag but -- high class 1% of our members of the -- percent. And -- they find out about you mean -- to get -- yourself. The most newsworthy mouse we get a decent coverage but we have 300 some have to members in New York that that got your book back in -- we're approaching -- testament -- that that you're going to cut everybody -- they want to pay it my bad guys that are."

" Well you know wolf was filled waiting lists and I don't know final -- to us said that waiting list of people. It's that it is better to keep a couple of good members really happy than have hundreds of members -- you cancer --"

" Lack of customer service that -- we talked about this around hiding out 6:15 in the morning behind me not to get the guy's comment on this behind me is actually bar. Yeah we haven't been drinking I want to make that handle drinking and -- diet drink before you take the crap out but. The point is that this is actually opened -- four hours. A day and they actually -- the happy happy hours once a week because of the clad is a community do that built up a what are some of the events that -- allowing -- to."

" We do we probably produce fifty event -- we do everything from party's right here in the club to rallies across your private race days. All sorts of exciting stuff that you want to give it just never really had the time comes and to plan to --"

" So at number. Is one site London's another site okay and and Alaska out."

" And then where LC it'd be standing -- going to do that this this fall we're planning our launch strategy for LA and in Miami will be up to and when your memory could use any of those clubs -- rooms though."

" So how much cash tree and then dedicated buying new cars. Next year."

" Well if we if we -- LA you know that. That won't -- take about five million. You know that that includes ramp up marketing staff and as a whole roll out of the yes it California's academic offerings like we we we have to trust people on this yeah that's -- whereas you know. We yeah ten days. Things out spending for aliens have -- and mean that's a whole lot careful that the level of trust in New York."

" The -- and I think having come out about the would you guys let's just say he added everything CPI that I didn't know. A UN and -- sports person you're paying a thousand dollars -- month in finding -- payments right and then you have the park in New York -- are talking about another. Couple hundred dollars at least in -- have insurance and and have maintenance. And again maybe not driving it very often I mean did that I mean is maybe just beat you works if it even would you guys do."

" Wolf are actually that's one of the clintons -- you have to be an aficionado I think action one of our viewers asked that question I was crossing off the questions they can make you -- a great job answering -- want him about the recession -- insurance and everything else but somebody wanted -- that would fly outside -- New York is anything to these guys now. That if you like this happened outside a bar."

" Yeah let's talk a little bit of one of the questions is my out I mean maybe New York networks -- outside of New York maybe not mean I I haven't been to Edinburgh in Scotland for example to wind down like I mean -- it really work does that does that motto really function if you went to. -- Omaha if you went to even the Twin Cities."

" I think it does -- for two reasons. Writing works anywhere second I have -- very -- of our -- because Ricard as -- on their own four GT we've had. BMW and six figure share that we -- that CNN we regard servants. Pain in the -- is you know if you drive 56 times. About how great of a card as you've done so the variety always keeps you coming also London's been doing this for fourteen years now this this month actually and so they've they've been they've improved networks. I think a lot of ways. A city like Delhi would be great because people drive -- one you know if you have your hunger every day or you have something special. Comes at a club on Monday take something extremely special bring back on Friday. Variety variety is what makes like --"

" If you think for example let's -- out there -- city and they say okay what happens if I got all my buddies together. How we formed a car you know we just -- our cars get a maybe we share the financing. And we got to take each -- cart we would it would of working effect you try to get themselves."

" It's it's the best way to lose your friends and tell him what labs and expressed here 63 impala Atlanta and there's no in the middleman as it you know yeah. It's probably the biggest mistake any want to distract you this is done it they think their friends are going to be either members plan and that it's going to work. In their backyard and and you know it will work and duplicates in spending being -- they'd be your backyard as a best beer. Area."

" Thank you tip whenever you heard and I think yakking my tenth -- getting everyone keeps saying the luxury market is threatening and no one wants to drag around. It's 1000 dollar -- down the streets of Wall Street right now because this just in maybe two years ago we do that story but it seems so. The little out of place right now have you seen any pullback if people want to -- I don't 2000. More TV than that an --"

" Until the Florida lawsuit on last Thursday it really there. Yeah exactly do they think people smile -- all right you enjoyed it that. -- secretly Atlantic I think it's always been mixed. People have been driving the classics a lot more but you know the carbon -- couple months it's become really popular as. The department -- is the to -- 200000 dollar that's stuff that -- that brought my other question is why I -- we have yeah final question actually -- and -- an excellent pointless and a -- gets all the -- assignments while Jeff -- sucks at an outside GM's headquarters and get a fair point and put our mutual friend -- wants to know which one you would. Like to have when you're done you've built I don't know about you -- I think I hear this big car buff I've been trying to tell people."

" Well actually the car I hate to say that the current that I like is not here and we couldn't get it back. But I did it does little bit about the Pope read the cobra."

" Yet it is subject to rose. One of the first cars that we started with it's is that you know looks like it. Sixties race car on the piano and it's since day one has been most desirable car we have so of course its target back you're CNN's Larry yeah I like okay. -- But I can't learn to not late summer. -- remember is trying to get their last last night -- gala event where he."

" Yeah I haven't seen I got a crappy debt and then I mean I -- Chelsea but their boat at a healthy that they're both they're great people also you can pick out. Glenn McConnell he has three kids. And and -- museum Billy she's right around and all sorts of different things for the -- business that we're -- the right what currently in place than men. -- one I put her in the Tesla if picked up I think about BCE would get it and I back there at the 170 fat -- anti."

" It's all electric units and your gas -- and don't -- it actually that would miles pretty --"

" Here it is sixteen board back in May mean what do you think about Connell would -- on well we've especially hard to -- we have 1975. Through eight GT Porsche Ferrari and it has were nice so you can drive yeah."

" Guy is definitely do you know why they -- like it's -- your answer yeah I actually do. If that's not found itself I think yeah okay okay that they had already got got got got that -- drive -- the guy actually might cool cards right right I was sure I'd check it out. Yet classic car flat dot com if any can heal at different locations and you can check out their new cars when they get it in check -- right."

" Cobra -- we know you're not been on our Anita cool Staten carpal artwork. -- picture you all right the I -- with -- and a that's right have fun we'll talk to tomorrow. Generally my favorite thing about that with the classic cars don't fund that was really fun and I -- that. -- cars -- coming up with the auto sales figures which although there is happy go lucky or not but that's next. Much more still to come on Fox Business stock."

" The -- for Concord deal had come to an end and we also boosted the cartels for the last couple months here released last month but Robert Cray have all the details for us how they do."

" Well they've boosted them hospitality -- quite as much as some people are expecting particularly Ford yeah we're coming and that top of the hour. -- at first blush looked pretty good he started to look through the total numbers on comparing it taking what they -- a 182000. Cars and change. I in the month goes up about 10%. From July through you know an elegant and 70% versus a high a year ago. The problem is. People looking for much more -- the stock compliment you for 21% putting -- half percent boost from a year ago he could really see it in the stock reactions you're looking through the numbers you're seeing you know they're gaining market share they'd been numbers look pretty good. He -- really see the stock selling off and a lot of people are anticipating that was at least going to be as good or may be better. A big concern out there obviously with -- if you're not going to be pushing it to an elevated level. What's -- gonna do and it's already concerned about you know taking away sales from the future a Volkswagen for one also they were when they were up 11% year over year. This -- the best month in US else's December of 2005 so clearly you know -- now we're still looking you know for Hyundai -- for example -- have record sales according to Edmunds dot com. During this time periods of interest and see who the winners are going to mean we know we saw that the sales list. You very few American cars in there and therefore did sell you know -- the most -- focuses folk I. You know -- a record much farther down so a lot more or folk -- had a Ford Focus was moving off the lot it's sad isn't it that does speak to the fact I guess at some AM the so called for an auto makers which is that something of a misnomer -- still made in the United States. Do a better job on this group of cars. Or is that fair to say do according to analysts at bottom yet so tight that the new American car they would have if you you know look at what's expected is taken a look at Honda expert to 20% -- Hyundai about left 45%. Bulk. From you know -- dust this month ever month here so there really expecting a big -- there if you look at the year over year. I was taken quickly here -- it's 63% bump versus a year ago -- was -- at one by the way expected to be higher than a year even with. Cash for clunkers so if not now win it exactly so it could be addressing -- about a expecting just a 1% drop. So we may see him actually with an improvement over year over year but. -- keep and I you know General Motors Chrysler he has sort of you it's on the wire they haven't officially reported yet. But they are expected to it's produces a drop of about 50% a year a year and had not crossed officially that would be a smaller drop than anticipated. Now publicly traded that's hard to tell -- by that Fiat say ADRs really very different trade it's hard to get any kind of read."

" And the economies and it didn't have a big inventory related to keep up with some of the demanded that they all need."

" Joining LA is actually we did have a guest on inside again and again but we had. You know why when there folks on this morning and it's about the the price per car actually hire you to that. So people are actually paying -- you're getting this 4500 back but you're paying sometimes 500 bucks. More than you had happened earlier this year it certainly versus a year ago due to block in the turnout actually spoken people throughout car shopping and they were driving from city to city. Going to North Carolina looking for a specific color because of color in the model they wanted was an end to -- to go to different dealerships all over the place tribe clients were cut a deal so. Inventories Elaine we know that's pretty much across the economy and I was born out you know with these guys in the manufacturing numbers we continue to see. Yes and as you mention of the publicly traded big car companies Ford is down after its results even though they were absolutely right not much is exposed to don't have the numbers it it. They losses doubled. Move up 3% down to six up about some said that they started coming back off the lows of the keep in mind we have a broad sell off. On the street anyway you're so right it's a big down day for the market you also mentioned Edmondson but at times thanks Robert -- go to bill does think now was at Edmunds. Auto observer joins despite Skype bill what's your take on all these numbers of Robert's going through from a -- surprise you today."

" Well good -- call you know I think what we're seeing -- it's incredibly sporadic dollar industry right now it's whenever you get some big artificial injection -- of -- of buyers into the market in the weekend you know sort of influenced by a what -- bunkers was all about what we're seeing isn't there that's like throwing darts right now everybody solar group work. Undies laying out of Volkswagen's -- our recently. Some of the others haven't done so well. And you know what happened they're too -- is the inventories started to really -- but down as CEO. As the program got ended in full year he saw that some auto makers -- prepared in cancer had a little better inventory situation. They were able to capitalize on that and and others were."

" And is now a Lotta people even talking about this short term boost and could it eventually translate into long term growth. Is that possible or has where have we seen that the the that bump up --"

" Well you know I think first of all but definitely see -- Obama you know this is obviously going to be a you know a one time sort of the end I think it's not going to change the basic dynamic that was. At work in the market right now which was you know everybody's going back on -- car purchase everywhere asking us stuffed -- there are a lot of people out there without jobs employment side the people who are employed are worried about seeking jobs so we're seeing a lot of purchased east for a little one on big ticket items like cars. So I don't think you're gonna change that dynamic. What happened was this as was mentioned earlier this -- at a lot of people into the market they might have been thinking about buying our mind in a position to -- you are six months or a year or even more -- more. Ever going to the market now in hand. They'll be -- area."

" If this doesn't change the dynamic and we basically go back ever take to where we were before the clunkers program what. And when will that dynamic changed the way you see things right now."

" Don't you know I think the more we see everywhere talk about hobby and housing. You know sector really affects economies. I think you'll see eighty auto industry and you -- sector he certainly canary in the coal mine -- out. After that. A winning economy truly starts to pick up and he seeks consumer confidence start to pick up that's I think it'd be win the auto industry will pick up and not before -- the consumers are not confident right now. -- that the market the market so I think Intel MRSA general consensus that the economy is is is improving. -- that tell your general personal -- situation isn't. In danger you know you probably won't let the market pick up I don't think it'll be at least until. The middle of next year media --"

" All of next year let me follow up -- that this way you're saying that you know -- consumers aren't competent yet the numbers certainly consumer confidence surveys have shown that. Why aren't they because the stock market you know today -- you were starting to see the the beginnings of some -- sort of the fall sell off as we see many times in the past we come 50% off the -- so. People who had their wealth just decimated last year started to get some of that back. Some of the other economic indicators manufacturing today seems to be out of recessionary levels showing us that there's a bounce back. In the economy what's holding down the consumer for not being more confident and going out doing things like buying new cars and jobs what does it. Carl you know I think."

" And they worry you know a stupid enough to get into the market then now you know they've already. -- were you know the main street America right now I don't think that people -- great about there. Personal household situations and there're there're people all over the country you're recovering from a once -- and household in 82 and I don't think that's."

" So the auto companies that move forward here if if what you're saying is -- of the consumer isn't there yet they're not confident they're not really willing to take a lot of -- to meet you -- make big. Purchases you know we talked about how the reduced inventories sort of held some of the momentum back from the car company that assuming are ramping that up to try and restock their showrooms suit. To be able to sell parts of people who do want them but it's very. A worried that they might overshoot the runway may be too many cards and then we don't tell -- where we're back sort of of the problems that that we saw earlier in the year with a car companies -- mean how they navigate that future. Of getting the -- people want to buy and yet also with its consumer is still pretty shell shocked."

" They -- that's a great question I mean right now bed is the big dilemma in the car business you -- some you know iron on the on the lots to show people who are coming into -- into the -- you gotta have something near you can't have an empty lot. Let's say you're right -- and -- production is being raised most of the carmakers particularly the all in carmakers. And said that they are raising production to try and go back yeah tourists and read. You cast your co workers program. But -- that's -- tightrope right now it is a serious serious. Business in the car industry to try to determine exactly what that level right now -- production that you need. Seem to get out there -- inserted replenish your inventories. Without first talking again or should room that you're not quite sure really going forward especially dark it's a winner here in the east Indian brand in north. You know how many people may be coming in November and December -- don't know -- dilemma that our business certain --"

" I had just a real quick cat. Bill we've got to run in and out -- standing by so -- no real explanation here but which of the car makers do you think our best positioned to kind of withstand or. Or you know do be okay in that environment is difficult was it May Day."

" Well I think -- be the carmakers -- continue to have that mix of models that seems most appropriate once -- right now right in the carpet you know in the consumers' minds -- I think it'll have to be somewhat recently -- Christian -- don't look too bigger too ostentatious or two large. In you know that bit -- affordable -- that are reasonably affordable and comparatively affordable. For for people who are -- because the consumer mentality absolutely right now -- sucks."

" You know I I need value any value and I don't want to do you know we're seeing that in the numbers -- sick it is -- Edmunds auto observer thank you bill he has tried to thank you for joining us -- to talk about the car. Industry are right a little bit more now to talk to a dealer because those -- the people that really saw that the infamous clunkers program. And now what next since its ended. And we want to know what's going to happen going forward that's next foxbusiness.com. --"

" The cat for conquered feel it come to that we got into the -- to some of the auto makers that last month but we're. Talk now with eighty dealer who -- the dealerships in Ohio Florida Arizona Columbus Ohio for a wide range across the country ST Germain. Is joining us thank you so much for being here today we want to go straight to the question did you see a huge jump at your dealership from this program -- for congress."

" Well -- thanks for having me out and that's going to be married yes that. August was a great month for the -- motor company's wells lose all most of the manufactured most of the dealers. In Ohio as well as Florida and and then Arizona so those are great great month and appreciate everything our associates did they work long and hard. In the month of August and there -- also bear that out."

" How about September October November because as our previous guess -- that's the concern right now in the industry job what your level concern that. We go back right back where restarted."

" Well -- we're planning on going back to where we started in the forecast for this year was to be. Much of the same for most of the year not all the years so we're looking we're just gonna get back to manage your businesses are ten man. For the rest this year that we expect that you wrote to eleven million in 010 so it's back to business news -- were great. It was a great stimulus plan and they did exactly what those supposed to do and and the environment and -- an economy in many consumers were all winners."

" I'm carries to know what you're taking the result of the cap for congress are going to get some cars are more popular I think regret the focus. I don't know that other part -- you learning about what can consumers want from what cards they chose to get into through this program."

" Well. Yes and no I'm and I don't think we can put too much. Emphasis or or you know take too much away from the cash upon -- short program. It only. Attracted 10% of the market into the assurance not a real good indicator probably but it could bid does tell us that people. Are looking for more fuel fuel efficient models probably in the future career. Delhi though we had enough inventory going and we had a great great sales plan and and we we managed to plan and we're down about a thirty day supply we started 53 -- supply and bill in the beginning of August so. Inventories are down a question about it's going to take thirty days to build those back up but. You know. Better to have this problem and I."

" Vietnam what is your sense of the consumer mean when you you could you have conversations with people all the time what types of comments have been making about where they're -- In their individual lives and how they expect that to change over the next few months. Two year. I don't think."

" Anybody's expecting things to change much today in the short term I think everybody is. As prepared for wounded on this economic environment Doran and I don't think -- change anytime soon so it's business as usual. For both I think the auto makers and dealers and consumers as well moving forward in the short term."

" And you think business as usual you think you're gonna have to pick up on offering rebates and some incentives to buyers now that the incentive from the government. Has gone and -- in the fall there are a lot of car dealership that offer. In Columbus -- sales and other kinds of things that those still in the works are you -- that to kind of keep that momentum that people thinking they're getting a deal."

" Well I think one of the values of the -- Contra program was that is very limited short term program unlike. 00 for sixty back and no two -- employee pricing for everyone know five so it was a very finite. Program and people knew that and again and only address 10% of the market so. I don't think people are necessarily expecting -- are going to wait for the next big deal."

" Okay Steve thank you for joining us and and good luck with everything as their -- up. Well thank you very much drag me out to -- from a Columbus Ohio which remain on motor company sees an auto dealer can give you an idea of how things are out there I think before we get off the the air today foxbusiness.com. Live we should bring the big board up again just to see how the stock market is doing it's almost right on to -- we talked about the top of the show. Big sell off despite better than expected economic did that we gave for the banks maybe this is the start because of of something in the month of September that we've seen a lot of times in the past."

" And it didn't think it talked to -- few economists expert has no exact reason as to why September is just terrible month but it just happens everything it's interesting to see now on whether this will be a different year because it's a different set of circumstances or. In the middle and I sort of coming out of a recession subsequently were going in one direction but yet he also have a lot of government money -- supporting the economy which is not unusual or not at that briefing after so it's going to be interesting to see what factors really way. On the markets and what coming at play here and masters at -- saying you have to be educated beyond your chosen."

" The involved yeah will be following here at noon eastern time every single weekday thanks for joining us get out and only the -- Kelsey -- from The Wall Street Journal digital network guy -- will be back we think from the -- from the classic cars driving traffic out or got pregnant she checked while married to the library. Tomorrow same time tickets out of Hulu and iTunes trees downed animals to against."