How to Sell Health-Care Reform

" Really aren't reflecting so -- said that news that we got this morning we got another really big batch of earnings reports today. A lot of mixed messages from -- are participating on what sector looking at what company. Though a lot for investors that tape again and again we have to remember we've had several days have really it's pretty strong gains in the market so. And we have to factor in as well as whether or not might be time for the markets take a bit of a breather."

" Yeah absolutely going to big week the last week and and a big guy -- the first couple days this week let's start. -- with Robert -- on the earnings that Janet mentioned including one from Morgan Stanley which was. As good as -- much -- Morgan struggles in some ways but kind of -- report this morning and it was a report just going to -- analysts -- here talking about it and putting out if you look at some of the weaknesses I mean you know versus peers well the problem is. They appear really is almost only one instantly go down these days I mean these guys still the legacy investment banks they've. Which converted bank holding companies to get in the TARP. Which of course is now sort of coming back to bite -- in some ways that it repay get back the ten billion dollars last month as a matter of fact those in their last quarter. That you talk about you know they would -- had a a solid second quarter profit without the start repayments with a repayment of course. They have a law that you do this morning with that they would at a greater last year if if there weren't for the housing collapse and I think a lot of the -- of that great. If it truly is that. In a conference call down -- about you know the IPO backlog still is somewhat challenging and they environment but really came down to. John MacKey and you can't really fault him for this too much. Really pulling in the reins on risk during the past quarter of the problem is the Goldman got through going gonzo have run risque and they really scored well on it so. You know if you're an investment bank you really they're trying to figure out what they want to be do they want to be the next incarnation of Merrill Lynch they wanted the -- trying to you know be. Do the risk game against Goldman they don't -- to know exactly where they want."

" To be you know interesting this is tied into Ben Bernanke who is testifying again on Capitol Hill is -- date to Connell. For his semi annual testimony in front of congress when if things -- Ben Bernanke was talking -- yesterday was commercial real estate. And it seems to be a trend across Morgan Stanley -- wells Fargo's -- KeyCorp that you're seeing all these banks talk about weakness. Other commercial real estate side. And it there's like disagreement between Washington and Austria about how big -- probably going to be we don't know right now but seems off of the evidence of that not just on that. The brokers table that we need to think about. But also just you know just overall weakness in the economy silicon."

" Absolutely and and you you look at that that study on people still waiting for. The effect of that and we'll have to see in the news you hear some folks -- just waiting for to get a little worse they can come in and -- we've -- right. Several people coming on and there's others who are you really concerned about this and watching to see there's a CIT -- you know going back to -- the story we talked about for a few weeks now seems like. But if you retailers and able to get their money than they sort of go out in the mall and it fit a certain number of retailers in the mall than the big -- shops. Can then get out of their contracts and leases there animosity and -- conduct -- most essential Michael you've got to really be people watch on here but. Wells Fargo a lot of their problems stemming of course from -- the ticker -- Wachovia who bought Golden West Financial out California the height of the market. -- option arms he could sort of option Nia how much would put down and you know and pay in this initial years before reset. So -- still have a lot of bad legacy. Toxic assets on the right and it's going to take a lot of work through all that."

" And wells is down five and a half percent after its released today are Robert thank you very much of Robert -- there with our top stories from the earnings. Arena today you know it's interesting as we watched the bottom retreat a moment ago and it's available are a lot of the Fox Business Network the testimony Ben Bernanke today. Did you happen to good I think you're probably busy on Fox News the did you happen to catch Jim -- senator Inouye. Chairman Bernanke and interest in part about it is it literally could have been written who knows maybe it was look at your -- the question. Could written by Ron Paul it was it was from the Ron Paul playbook in terms of auditing the Federal Reserve. Congressman Paul will join us later so we'll get to ask about that but Bunning went after Bernanke my whole idea of Fed independence versus oversight entrance --"

" Let's put that question out there is value gig coming go ahead and your come forward on the screen you're joining us live. Do you want to know more. From the Federal Reserve's do you want more transparency with that. Entities there's been a lot of Chris dividends and -- support for transparency or lack of transparency but as a citizen do you want your taxpayer dollars. I'm being invested in them potentially making and the Fed through audits or otherwise more transparent."

" And that is the question versus. The independence that the Fed is always the supposed to have pat and that's your argument from Bernanke that hey we need this independence we don't need oversight from politicians telling us what to do and possibly influencing interest rates -- there. Anyway while I don't think Ron Paul's question to answer will deliver on the show he will join us like Kevin -- joins us first. Chief investment officer at -- in Walsh could see it's always. Kevin thank you very much for coming back. What do you think this this market and in where it is right now has -- we had a nice little run we've come up a lot in the last week and now the earnings reports are coming in. We've -- over and over it's almost like beating it. A dead horse here to some extent beating on the bottom line and missing on the top line for so many companies the revenue growth isn't there but the market doesn't necessarily punish them."

" I think we've -- too far too fast I do believe that the bottom was breached on March ninth however you expect to see a pullback in the markets at some point during the third quarter. And that real sustainable recovery better for once looking for probably starting to take place towards the latter part of this year but levels -- washing. Well we're we're really look at the S&P 500 and initially enough here we did a research report about two. Two months back when we looked at the FC -- 200 day moving average. And we saw with the 5% cushion if in fact we got through that 5% cushion. That always signaled a bull market -- going back to 1950 and we just reached that earlier this week so yet more evidence that this this -- could be real."

" Well and it just that we don't really vacuous right now the big board and not that we don't talk about -- because of course we do as well. -- we're looking at this morning in -- out about whether or not the Dow was gonna go -- 9000 yes. And keeping the markets are comfortable reaching some of these levels you that we're talking at all the different technical site that a plane into the trading. And investors but. Do you think there's a market psyche -- wondering if the levels that we could be reaching our real."

" Yeah I think of a lot of fellow portfolio managers like myself and institutional money managers are comfortable with it. Tom because we don't feel the fundamentals are underlying it but investors are investors are so anxious to rally amid back with a loss in 2008 they're blowing past. A lot of very significant concerning who's --"

" attention -- of the party hats on rated number one Mario Gabelli -- security Solis said he had a doubt 10000 had minute tells you how long ago that was and then. We're -- gonna get excited when the Dow crosses 9000 but you know wasn't that long ago really when it was at fourteen -- about sky without government without your writer Doris says 5000 points -- go to the all time high more than that. So I mean. It's not that crazy to say that we get above these levels I know -- happened in a short amount of time."

" We've fallen a long long way."

" Please 2007 there would we certainly happen and I think what we're sort of seeing now with some of those trends from 2007. Her -- trade Brazil Russia India China the rating of 2007. We'll guess who's waiting list for 2009. Russia and China it's coming back again I think real growth is going to take place outside US borders and I think small cap and midcap believe there are."

" you invested that as the US investors that the ETF thanked allies in the thought I did."

" Obama Padilla owner of the ATF's. And I think that's the method you go out. It's investors we have to stop trying to pick the needle in haystack to invest in the haystack things that all those -- respect for now available to V chip market looks great it."

" Now haste acts are created equal and I think I'm I'm sure that we I've tried to who attacked by -- yes and we don't let remembrance we don't have tried its value certain. Product -- I don't neither do our guests and just when you some perspective and each acting really easy to collect yes right -- you -- say well I'm not too committed to anything in the ETF and they really spread around my rest and play the market this way even if I'm not comfortable with the fundamentals. But how do you judge since there are allowed ETFs out there the good guys."

" The bad guys yeah I think you have to start with the sound asset allocation strategy. And that asset allocation strategy has been rooted in what are your goals and objectives what are taunts for risking what's your investment time for him. Once you develop an asset allocation strategy then you can go out and look at the available -- tips and nutrients to actually implement that strategy. We now have you -- a couple fixed income and equities international emerging markets we can go a long short we can invest in the commodities market we can invest in the currency."

" Is there any red flagged and you ETF when it's announced yet we hear about that night hitting the market to different times is there anything they look at you like my pocket and not sure about that sure. Whether as a sector saying I mean within our mutual funds."

" Some of the criteria that we employee."

" You have to -- for at least six months to be amazed how many tips that -- already sure you know we know we've we've had a couple them introduce senator shall pray they -- seem like a great deal when you hear about him but then you have."

" I want some of them are very niche oriented they sound with a great idea on paper what are the gonna have the volume for the going to have -- liquidity to make us feel comfortable investing in them -- yet to look at. What causes them to move. And what exactly is the product. With all the noise that we hear about these in -- leverage we've -- I have a way to make people fail to realize that those are daily recess. They're investing in what they believed to be an S&P 500 short product. But it resets every day so they look at their Vermont declined statement to CBS and he is down 3% my short ETF on the S&P 500 down 8%. How could that -- because it resets every day so you have to know what you're investing."

" Are there there -- other products so that contract the S&P for a longer period -- up tonight after -- bears consideration for a longer term. In first product right now they're old they're so how do you get yourself for exposure then. -- a downward movement in the market if you think that the market's going down you want to hedge your your best to some extent but I think we've come too far too fast."

" Only one thing you can have to do is actually short one of the long tips. People think they can only investor in person chip to get. No negative correlation on the product you can go short one of the long dealer who is to launch a short things -- recent and they don't and perhaps maybe they shouldn't be but there's other places you can allocate your money -- that will provide you with that downside protection."

" Camping quick reaction to the news we just got it Edward and Robert greatest thing on the sense that -- he goes over community is not here when things incentives in this press release from Goldman Sachs says today -- three dean of the warrants. The US -- from the US government in its TARP capital purchase program about one point one billion dollars so. In the full value it seems at least from what I'm reading right now I'm just going in this press releases me as you go along. It seems like -- ride they've redeemed all the warrants that are out there and authors are all those outstanding image to be so quick to judge have been. As we start to see this might be a trend you know Goldman noted leading all -- about repaying TARP. And also repaying these warrants that the last line in time for the government what what kind of message does that send."

" I mean anticipate repay that money quickly enough to strings that were -- taking those TARP funds. Are holding them back and anchoring them in terms of thrown out of their their own. Fiscal deficits I think what that says to us is that the financial want to get back on a level playing field but I still see bumps in the road ahead for financial financial sector and still leery of."

" They found some sort of price for the mayor while there are a number of ways to value of the warrants is is from the the release. Including through a public auction which of course have been talked about we believe in the context of extraordinary action taken by the government help stabilize the financial system we -- Goldman. This valuation represents full and fair value but we."

" A lot of back and forth about you know -- the next next paragraph says that they paid 318 million dollars in preferred dividends. And that's an annualized return of 23% for US taxpayers so again that their press release just going to make you know they'll look good."

" Or are we the taxpayer had wanted the government to hold out as long as possible on this and get the best price to throw our money anyway Kevin thank you for your -- can you be happy with a 20% annualized return I think it's all there. Appropriate. Think I don't on -- and Walsh. The -- on Tuesday former economist at the Federal Reserve is going to come in way in. On the Ben Bernanke testimony in just a moment to remember coming up later on the program congressman Ron Paul. At a Texas a lot we still do this is foxbusiness.com."

" remembered Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke is busy down on Capitol Hill that India testimony is semi annual testimony to congress he's talking a lot about the economy the recovery in the Fed's efforts in that. I've recovery a David Jones and the chairman DNJ. Advisers. I talk a little bit about what's going on with the Fed of course you have some experience and mister Jones with the Federal Reserve. -- if your quick reaction overall to what mr. Bernanke has said so far got in DC."

" Well it's somewhat upbeat I would say. You have to watch chairman Bernanke's words closely. That's all Fed watchers have to do bad. He's talked about the economy stabilizing. And that's the new word for him we have been talking about. Essentially a free fall in the economy in the fourth quarter last year and the first quarter of this year. Bernanke start talking about that. Declines slowing and now in this testimony he's mentioned that perhaps economy is stabilizing. He's still not giving us a lot of hope for house strong any. Future recovery will be he is positive in his own. Outfit forecasts of growth later this year about the the key word in his testimony is stabilizing I'd give him credit for one other thing too. -- he's taken the offense. Maybe the best defense is a good offense in this exit policy the -- is pumped. Huge amounts of liquidity into the system. Both through conventional and unconventional means. He said he's going to take that out on a timely basis at some point in the future once recovery gets under way. Perhaps once that unemployment rate which is still headed higher. Stabilizes or starts down that could be well into next year but at least he's talking about that policy anticipating it and I think that's been -- is favored to."

" Right thinking about that exit strategy art. -- let me ask you about this news just as you you have been an economist at the Federal Reserve Saddam was thought about these issues along time meant to me one of the questions to those who criticize the Fed. I mentioned -- going to have Ron Paul on later he's going to chief critics -- even want to have a Federal Reserve System in place like to do away with the completely moralists thought the Fed. If you. The question here is what would have happened it Bernanke not taken some of these actions in the fall. You're saying that I think that it they helped that it stabilized the system. What would it have been like if we weren't as as a nation as aggressive as we were. In the policy decisions made by the Fed."

" Well let's. Very clear at least in my view that. We essentially we're on the verge of a total meltdown in our financial system particularly after the Lehman. Bankruptcy in mid September 2008 and even prior to that fighting this credit crisis -- and anchor. Whatever you want to call it back into August 2007. But most particularly after that Lehman bankruptcy. And -- it would be hard to tell how far we would have fallen essentially credit was cut off we saw two. Significant degree if you wanted to -- an auto you couldn't get financed because GM AC couldn't borrow. In the commercial paper market -- the Fed has done a lot of very important work and pumping credit back into the market so. To me if it gets most of the credit for pulling us back from the abyss if credit had been cut off if our financial markets have melted down. If we had completely lost confidence in the banking system. We'd be in a depression now not just a bad recession so mr. Paul can talk theoretically until he's blue in the face. But if you look back even over the post war period the Fed is tended to make our expansions longer and are contraction shorter as it has. Guided the economy in a general way it doesn't interfere in market decisions. By and large although it's had to involve itself much more and markets. To help save the economy this time. But they keep the Fed is absolutely critical as a lender of last resort and is sort of -- guide post. For the economy and it's indispensable and it needs to keep its independence. In a monetary policy area."

" That's the other -- down taking notes David -- That -- to what congressman Paul think about you know talking theoretical till he's blue in the face needs to keep independents. You know that's the issue we talked about it earlier about nobody -- on the --"

" You think -- there is some ways though that the Fed can do more as they start to grow their programs. And an -- as you mentioned you say that these programs are justified really help the economy if that's the case is there a way for them. To do. More to should tip maybe public outreach and that might be seen is Ben Bernanke's sit down with CDS a couple of months ago I mean that's something -- previous Fed chairman's. When not have done ECB has a news conference -- after the because maybe there's a different thing that could be done that would be somewhere in the meeting in the middle."

" Excellent question yes. Hopefully we can satisfy mr. Paul by. Saying look the -- had to go beyond any measure it's ever used except back in the depression. Declaring and usual and exit circumstances when it bailed out Bear Stearns when -- bailed out AIG. Any of these very special actions taken. To help these individual companies by the way the Fed got the treasury to approve of that in writing but because it was an easy about venturing out in this area. They can easily have those areas audited. Mr. Paul can bring in GAO and every other. Accounting outfit that he can possibly find. And audit those areas it's just where you draw the line is making monetary policy I don't want mr. Paul or any other of those. Politicians who ask these endless questions in these hearings -- out looking over the Fed children policy they need to be independent. And they need to stay out of politics when they're making monetary."

" You know our our viewers are commenting on us as we speak in this this is inspired by jay who's been writing in a few different comments and questions. And you know the same argument could be made for congress as well that congress itself is not transparent enough and doesn't do enough. As far as outreach means that makes some politicians he can't get away from the camera the alliance. If you like some more information so -- asking what questions keeping Federal Reserve Chairman. Ben Bernanke should posed to those who were questioning him."

" Well that's that this is exactly the issue. Who were used to saying what policy should be. Our politicians are always trying to get re elected they're always trying to. But the most favorable spin on money your credit policy. Let's look ahead to three years when we start to get some inflation from all of this. Liquidity coming in would be want to politician looking over the shoulder of mr. Bernanke and his fellow policy makers on. When the Fed should start pulling back on. On its balance sheet and raising interest rates that's the exit policy I mentioned earlier. Aren't the answer is the last thing we need is is a politician helping make that decision so. And the other thing mr. Bernanke should say that congress is look get your own house in order you've got budget deficits that are. Going up faster than we've ever seen before and fiscal sanity both you and the Obama administration congress should. Do something about it and stop talking about me. The fifth policies can be heard very much if we end up with long term interest rates going up because the Treasury's borrowing too much and choking off recovery record ever get started."

" Fair enough and we have to let you go David in the -- have to get some health care talkin' but the final question try to play devil's advocate with you as we well. With congressman Paul when he comes on just to try to get the best -- is that everybody involved here is that he's going to come here he's going to say well. Listen we don't want to have a hand in monetary policy we don't want to make decisions about interest rates but we do want to know what the Fed is doing. For example I'm sure he's going to say things like when they give money to Goldman Sachs as he's put -- the path we want to know that that's happening. We we have a right as American people in congress is the conduit American people to know that these things -- happening what's wrong with that type of transparency."

" I totally agree any thing the Fed does in concert with treasury. TARP funds are giving special aids AIG story or NG can -- paid off. Debt that the Goldman Sachs all of those special conditions are ones that can be audited. Obviously you've got some -- those impartial law aunts and I think burden. And that's exactly right there the audit that's related to these special actions by the Fed. But not with regard to the independence of monetary."

" Fair enough David Jones former Fed economist -- that centrist and thank -- ground thanks David billions it's great to have you like this talk well we're going to continue it again Ron -- going to be joining us in about 121015. Minutes from now and Britney at the other side about why he believes the Fed needs to be. Fully confident we have. The fishing is perhaps why the hell have exacted."

" It's hard but health -- coming up next Bernie Julie brought by US news and world report we'll Beyonce want to take that the hot button issue that in his."

" doctor Bernadine Healy is joining us from US news and world report she's a health editor for that magazine and I've doctored video by doctor -- doctor Bernadine what what would you prefer. Whichever you line I hate us down there it's great -- have a Dr. -- is an authentic look at these issues on the journalists site as well this should think. You know that there's so many differing details of this health plan. And our viewers have been writing in and saying a slew of different things -- we cannot fact check firms that including that President Obama hasn't read the full bill or. You know it really making some accusations can you can't messages abroad take away. A what you think is the most important part of this healthcare report."

" Well I think maybe its size I mean spirited it's a thousand pages. And the fact the president hasn't read it and I guarantee you most members of congress have not read it. And this is pretty much an outline. In in many pages. Well what we're going to see what -- people are going. And I think that that is the biggest issue this is a massive. If not radical restructuring. Of health care. This particular report doesn't just talk about health insurance it talks about how we're going to we we make Medicare how we're also. Going to change a lot of things in the practice of medicine. And I think it's just too expensive for any one person to digest and we have got to slow down."

" By the way love all the stuff -- subject -- levels about reading bills -- I guess I don't -- I could. I would like to -- summary of it that somebody else is paid to write for me but I did like -- instead barely got through rob pulse three page bill -- this thing but I've read a lot about it and including in US news. You know where there were seven ways. Outline that health reform is going to affect you and that you know that's important and that not all negative by the way they're not all positive right. So one of the ways that could affect you if it goes through these dad. Everybody would always have access to insurance and that's the bottom line here right that's that that's the bottom line. And there are otherwise would take it from there -- you want to go in terms of what were you think the most important ways that we'll actually affect people. Watching if they get something done."

" Playing the president's correct everybody. Everybody should have insurance they have access to insurance system that's affordable. However does it have to be for every person the exact same. Bells and whistles policy that caused. Five or 10000 dollars you know most of the people who are uninsured are young people. And you can get a catastrophic policy with some preventive medicine options. That 450600. Dollars maybe 8000 dollars. And I think virtually all of the plans including this one put restrictions. On exactly how low your premium -- they want everybody to be paying a hefty premium. And that's hearted people who just gotten out of college just starting job. If we could if we could get reasonable policies for the people that they can afford another fair for them. And I think we will be able to expand people and particularly. Expand access and particularly the fear that you can go bankrupt -- the -- to face a car accident or something horrible and not be able to put our."

" But all the stuff about bringing down the cost which is really how it's being sold that it's going to be a cost saver not a cost edition over the long term. Group that that won't happen relative and if especially if taxes go up I pay more what we."

" I don't I I think that's one terrible misstatement colts will go up favorite go for the government and we're here like repairing the trillion dollars. But nobody is calculating what is the court's going to be pretty individual that taxes they have to pay. Compliance reforms of going to have to fill out the bureaucracy -- have to respond to there's a new thing called the health choices commissioner. That is going to be basically standing there in Washington. Deciding what choices you should be making it's the federal choices. That are going to be coming from me so all of this has a price and I have not seen any analysis of what the private people are going to have to pay what you -- not with citizens are going to have to pay I'm not already about the trillion dollars that the government is going to be feeling."

" You know I was looking at your seven years seven ways health reform is going to affect healing there's a few of them that are alarming I want to get -- the white and that. Seems positive -- is this this statement if you live in Albuquerque and get desperately sick in Philadelphia. Your entire medical history will be accessible and few clicks. Is that a positive -- we're looking at things that are positive about this plan is that one of them."

" Well I think we need electronic medical records and it is sufficient it has all sorts of benefits. But there are two ways to do it one way is you control wrecked ship. Whether it's in your cooking in your wallet on smart card whether it's chip on your skin. You control the alternative is to have it entered into what clout into -- into something that is accessible to the government where you get week where the government can real time watch what doctors are doing and how you're. Treatment is going and have access your medical records. And I don't believe we have the privacy protections. In place to say that we should jump to that level right now. And yet that is in fact what has being proposed. -- in about that anyway I'm getting people should pay attention to."

" Yet that I didn't realize that that's an interesting things they did it depends on whether or not -- carry it on a card with me would be one thing but. As -- cloud computing is talking about hacking group was that the story a couple of we get to be to get in the morning now. Yet about cloud computing there's a lot of questions about hackers being able to jump into the Twitter right that's where we."

" The thought -- efforts started but it also was on that some of them will be founder of -- ironically enough. I Amazon.com account because they hacked into his wife's account and things like -- actually keep everything online. Take a certain amount of risk although there's also. Would you agree a lot of reward doing it that way because longer term we want to be able to have that. Information whether it's health care anything else accessible from any place so that's the future it's just a matter how you get there. What is your point that we should start incrementally -- happened in the and a device that we carry around --"

" I think first thing is we've got to get records. Put on them -- electronically we have most of the prescriptions are electronic and really need to get the medical records electronic. And that in itself is huge task. -- within the next question is who controls it without your permission. -- for research -- for for surveillance. And and as -- laid out having pop ups appear in the doctor's office. As they type in your diagnosis. That all right thank you from a qualified computer thank you from the government. I think it does have concerns that doesn't mean it can't be done --"

" Yeah imagining -- difference if you -- all of us and yet here your medical records online and the speculating here but again -- Definitely targeting advertising space on your doctor put it. And the government can't grab them. Connecticut said that it brings it into the government their ads through you know being -- and -- information. I think it would put in every now it's out there. You know an."

" So there are very sensitive things that that patients confide in doctors or another in medical records whether it's a history of abortion sexually transmitted disease. I -- mental illness and family genetic. Things so it's not clear whether the entire medical record would have to be in the government's control and I think that's another. It that's another negotiation point maybe it's just a limited amount of information is there now the downside is it's less useful than for research which is. One of the expected hopes of this being able to. Look at 300 million people of medical records and."

" Right and you get get a lot of research data from the that's true how great branding agony after Britney really. We're going to be your article brought our viewers to take a look at because they're great talking point especially like the one about getting acupuncture. Here in the states -- And are brought for surgery that's number seven -- are putting into effect but -- Lincoln that check it out but thanks doctor appreciate it very much."

" Thank you all right moving on to well within the same subject but a completely different angle to it. What does the personal experience and our health history of the particular president have to do with how they present this issue of health care. Reform -- healthy guy. But many presidents Abner and and they exactly you have experiences in your own families with health care and how things are handled over time Jim Warren is the author of the part of power. Health and politics in the Oval Office and Jim. Joins us now to talk about. This book this approach could see Jim thank you very much for coming up -- the book the first thing people are gonna think of my guys split. Did did Shiite I think the good thing people are going to -- think about here maybe I'm in new thing about a lot of things. But they might think of either FDR course with the -- you know health problems that he had or they might think of president Kennedy with the health problems not as pronounced but certainly reported on much later after his presidency. That he had and how they were influenced so -- which would you like to talk about."

" For yes yes that's right -- a -- 14 times he gets the last rites of the Catholic Church. David Blumenthal my co author I went into this book thinking look here's one policy area. When the president's actually experience that's the thing that average citizens and they don't get homeless. They don't go hungry don't go to jail but they do get sick. And as a group they've been a very sick bunch. Yeah Kennedy being an extreme example Roosevelt another but we found something that some prices. You know."

" Their own personal hell doesn't bother me very much at all what really matters is that help of."

" Loved ones and a sick it and father or or."

" In -- get sick that really gets them. John Kennedy is a great example that one of the -- presidents ever his father Joe Kennedy as a stroke he devastate some. He takes Medicare which is -- bottom of all of a long pile of things and he says I gotta go for this I don't know what normal people do. When their parents get sick it really got in his dot. And the reason that's important is that."

" You don't want to get into this mess as you would just illustrating without daily you don't want to get into this mess unless you really really believe it."

" healthy."

" But clearly -- at the end of this campaign on to speculating now we're down every president from Kennedy and bush was grandmother billions weeping at the end of his campaign about his grandmother. So we'll look at the president's what's -- that guy. And then we try to draw lessons from all the efforts for health reform that use in adults and we try to present those in the last -- of Iraqis that you should do is that you should not do well."

" You know it fishing because this has been tried so many times knowledge healthcare just came on that on the scene last week and we're just trying to for the first time it's been tried and hasn't worked. Many times. So we could talk you mentioned Kennedy. President Johnson President Nixon. Even present Clinton with the more reason that people probably more likely to remember efforts in the early ninety's on healthcare. Wasn't anything in his personal experiences life experiences that led. It's either him -- his wife proposing that you know in 199394. That affected the debate that."

" Oh yes president after president has these effects. With that Bill Clinton he visited. Child of an alcohol out of an alcoholic. And done and so and it and and the son of a nurse so that combination of nurse and alcoholic. Abusive father abusive stepfather that."

" Very much hates Bill Clinton but let me get this something you read Euro listeners might be more Iraq more -- directly for a from the president's health."

" What lessons we learned for passing health reform and I believe there's a lesson that goes directly to Barack Obama's presentation. Tonight in his press conference -- and that's this. Benefits first. Cost control later Imus again benefits first what Barack Obama has to do is. Fuzzy on the cost control I know -- video all I can hear all -- want what's he talking about the universal experience of health reform."

" Is get the benefits in place then worry about the cost or as we put it in the book you gotta tell me economists -- shut out."

" Well you know died -- an example. Doug I've who's going to -- to -- for once I was a tennis. I was just gonna say and you saw you can hear everybody getting worked up they are don't worry the start to write out comments as he's as you speak but I I think that. You know one of the things there that people are gonna say first of all he's presented at the opposite way entry that you -- a -- the political argument but. Wait a minute here where we're at -- that things don't happen in isolation were at a big economic downturn here and no matter what your proposed whether it's health care. You know economic reform whatever it is that's on the table right now cap and trade. Eight it you can't think dividend back in -- means you have to. Think about -- on the Internet."

" Yes you've got it costs will calm that. I love to hear people saying we don't want Medicare pricing."

" For the new health insurance package trance like several senators said that translation. We don't want real cost control look here's the basic problem and the reason why this thing keeps coming back on the agenda. Every three to five years we push another percentage of GDP. One penny out of every dollar over into the health system or anything doing that -- sifting money since the 1950s."

" So we've got -- healthcare system that's constantly expanding. That makes the system unstable. What Obama's trying to do what he's got an opportunity to do is say look at what he's got to do tonight this whole system is unstable. But in the crux of bending the cost curve."

" We're going to have to do something that hurts it's going to be difficult everybody's got their illusory. Cost control. Newt Gingrich is saying well we had a fraud and abuse -- I be honest say that and we know this is going to cost something that we ought to do it anyway that's basically sounds like the bottom."

" Because of our what I'm saying something else I'm saying something else he does say that."

" But they'd get the benefits in place first -- once you get the benefits in place people of the program. Then you'd go then you're not going to cost him the perfect example. -- a perfect example Medicare Medicare."

" Lyndon Johnson tried to suppress the cost controls those people wanna spread like might -- protect me up five years so it can't do it. If we know what Medicare would cost."

" We would never -- the program the are once the programs in place people love it."

" They -- benefit and you then they're more willing to pay for it all right Jim we will -- leave it there is set to run some other guest Jim moron at Dartmouth again the book the the -- of power health and politics in the Oval Office interest -- take on that Jeff Flock special coming up here in just a moment we'll go to Detroit where Jeff is reporting -- it. Rob very very rough unemployment situation there remember Ron Paul is still to come the congressman out of Texas talking about the Federal Reserve. And we have a lot more on top of that so don't go latest foxbusiness.com line. Are just a few minutes up from congressman Ron Paul Texas and this talk about the independence and nor transparency of the Federal Reserve we've been talking about health care here the last 1015 minutes and just sit here you know very very interesting talk a lot of decisions that still have to be made there. They have city where they'd like to see their health care improving their overall situation improve his Detroit and Jeff Flock has once again reporting from there today. About employment which is just been a very very -- story in that city Jeff."

" Andy Dick novel it's not so much unemployment but the lack of employment and Natalia is in Michigan which is the worst state for employment and by the way. I'm walking through a city park right now this is a city park. This is the baseball field. Maybe it's either the the back stuff back there essentially this park is not -- in mode and I want to say. -- local residents here about three years. They edited it complete breakdown of city services. And you see it looks like a field of wheat almost all of its weeds not -- And make you see off in the distance there. The only thing that got used to be tennis court and multiple tennis courts. -- into disrepair and it's a breakdown of city services if if it's a recession if Michigan which has the highest unemployment of state it is it depression Detroit. With a compliment right somewhere hovering in the neighborhood of 25%. So. It tells you which one of the doing about it wanted for people essentially without a job here. And walk past -- maybe I get over to. The spelling here that I talked to earlier who's the liver that near the spark. Four want to say. He says since the seventies. He grew up here eight games. For the middle of a basketball game here wonder we're going to give him a breaker. Get a rebound here that -- and I I interrupt you right quick Q what happened to this park. --"

" They're negligent on the fear. That it's kinda don't have the money goes to to take care and anymore we don't have -- very. Forget it. Acknowledge you we get news of cooperation. Hopeful that. Very. If you like the city services are just breaking vacuous notion of winning news and pictures don't picture roads plowed it. Well when everybody I think with -- written. Yeah the application right now are your -- and employment situation. Good Kabila better if you have been working as a ship understandably COPEL all. That change. And we had a new man -- change your trip it was their right and so that job was yes. We -- An equal rate. If we can get a chance to get -- help from the city they can come to agreement but it was it was to open up. But until then are we have to wait and see which direction and knew where -- don't know it. -- just got a new mayor here in."

" Detroit taping -- to get back to basketball I appreciate the time thank you sir are -- I'll be -- scorching many points on your wife were known. So they -- O'Connell I -- it it is some sense -- system by the breakdown. Of city services they just do not have the money to take care of the city as it is presently configured."

" Top story Jeff thanks for telling you don't support. Jeff Flock in Detroit force once again this afternoon now. -- the Fox News Channel doing a report there she will be back in just a moment that I will begin by myself now with congressman Ron Paul out of Texas to join us from Capitol Hill could see congressman thanks very much for coming on. We appreciate it if you are so. -- and by the way to catch senator Bunning with the chairman Bernanke today -- re not a rabid and a television show I was. What we've been on the house floor and we just got. Finished with a vote siting at the -- it sounded like maybe it's it's you that you send an email to questions about today they had -- where or how we have maybe -- I think the best way of putting his and a healthy change. With the chairman earlier today about that -- of the guys say what have you but did you know obviously you did the same yesterday. And for people don't know congress and Paul has a bill that is getting a lot of support on Capitol Hill who wants to audit. The Federal Reserve's Federal Reserve says they wait a minute we're independent body we want to stay independent. -- that. Well because in secret then they can spend a lot of whose innovative. They can spend a lot of money. I thought but yet and they don't have a right to do this so I would say that we need to know exactly what they're doing. Now the problem is they don't want to have you influencing you being congress generally speaking. Influencing their decisions on monetary policies affect senator Bob Corcoran today that very same hearing called. Pay -- potential audit of the Federal Reserve or oversight. I catastrophe. Taking away from their independence. But he said that."

" Well. I would say they're completely wrong first we're not taking over monetary policy were a lot examined after they do it. And what they give him why they did it if you if you give ten billion dollars to Goldman Sachs after the discount window. I don't we have a right to know them and why they do and who are the beneficiaries. But we're not going to look over their shoulder and design a monetary policy congress -- couldn't be. Able to do that they would be a -- But that's not the purpose of it right the purpose this you know they claim they're for transparency that except for certain things that they don't want to be transparent. That some things they don't you don't know about which is not just about everything that is important. But now we have an obligation American people want it and that's why they're demanding it do this audit you know."

" Well yes and yes you have a lot of support -- again necessary capitol halls road building and since last time we talked view and we've had some other. Supporters of the bill on the air and even since then it seems to be building real groundswell of enthusiasm for people who are maybe angry like you are with the decisions that have been made. And and so on and so forth but you don't see your point about they want transparency in some areas and doing another as we had. With somebody got a few minutes ago used to work at the Federal Reserve David Johnson was economists there. And we asked him about it and he was saying all you know what. I don't I I don't like the idea of having to say is certainly monetary policy don't politicians have any say in that you've said that you wouldn't. But he did give -- to defective when we were talking to a that he could see some instances where we'd like to see more transparency you may give the Goldman Sachs ten point -- you -- so I brought that up to him as well and he says you know what. I could see that so. In the bill to short bill I think it's only three pages could there be something specific put it that would outline will have oversight of this but not. Of this is it written specifically enough that we need to get a little more detail."

" Well no what we do agree we've. We repealed the prohibition they say we can't wear a lot on the stand right now except war. And I repeal Wally except force but you could add something and say that. You wouldn't need to know the precise details of monetary policy may be for six months or a year. Bernanke playing yesterday he is coated piece -- it would be so politicized. If not we get a hearing one day and raise interest rates and they send the auditors in the next day. That's a gross distortion. Of what it's all about them that is not not what is intended at all so won't it look like you'd wait for awhile awhile will do well with -- I think you could say yeah I think you can put a limit on how many how long would it take. To get together and -- behind and in performance and aren't going to do it instantaneously and update today. Paces. So yes the American people are expecting this and I think -- going to yet. And get it that they're going to work very hard you can tell it. There are so many articles coming out now that they say that that we would be. If we if we had our way it would immediately forces pushing interest rates up and it would would be politicized right what could be more political then. Goldman Sachs getting money under the table so to speak. What could be more political than when it's been notorious and it's been known for many decades. That chairman of the Federal Reserve board accommodate presents when they're up for reelection reappointment them to the Federal Reserve board votes already politicized or."

" like say -- he has said congressman red chairman Bernanke said that the the influence would be implicit not explicit that they meetings would be. You know that governors would speak openly for example they be afraid that -- what they're saying is being looked at too closely and that independence. That has been at the center of of the Federal Reserve since its creation just would be there anymore."

" Well I mean that's that's that's there argument. -- white. Why should we be united true that's sort of like saying we're on the we're now know a lot of know about what the tortures are doing because it would make us look bad right I mean if it's true if they have they have good policy unity sign right -- not cheating anybody there's no fraud no special privileges."

" What are they afraid I mean they're getting tenacious now for the harder they fight us. The more it stirs up. What are they hiding there is no reason for them to be hiding. Anything we should know what we're doing they can literally create money -- appropriate money and spend money -- congressmen themselves are self government. It's against the law. To spend money that is not appropriate but they create money they loan the government they -- central banks they get involved in international banking our organization. It and that's just not in -- not a horrendous prices in now that this will lead to a dollar prices."

" People are getting very concerned and they know where the mr. -- and once you realize that if the Federal Reserve creates our business cycle our inflation -- recessions and depression. That's even more reason for us to look at monetary."

" And even one of the people that point the finger directly to Federal Reserve whether Bernanke his predecessor Alan Greenspan for their role in this. Financial crisis in fact I believe that you can correct me if I'm wrong were taken -- a different direction that you. Yet you don't even see the need for a central banking system at all and you like to see and what she makes this interesting that you like change the system that as it is -- and if you you don't want that the system to be a place in the first place helping him."

" Works right. Now they've asked me whether I think GAAP Bernanke should be fired and I think is the irrelevant I mean who who who you can put in place. You want another central economic -- doesn't work economically it's authorized the constitution the founders hated the idea of the Central Bank. And we lived long time up until 19:14. Without -- Central Bank. So yes that freedom does work AM this found money does work. The end it removes all the special interest of big government financing wars that we should -- and financing welfare state which would be in. It it we wouldn't be in this financial trouble and believe me when out of Federal --"

" Well let me ask you about that because and -- right -- history is is right that every time that -- central banking system was brought up before the early nineteen hundreds and plan was defeated for one reason or another. It usually has been brought up job and even what it was implemented around some sort of a crisis some sort of the banking crisis where there was the need -- think he was for some sort of a central banking. System so then we certainly had a crisis we all agree that was of -- there was a crisis in the economy last fall what would have happened had there not been. A Central Bank in place last fall Bernanke of course we went and those they would have argued with things would have been much worse."

" Yeah but we wouldn't bet that prices have noted it wouldn't you guys in the first place why is now weighted. But it's a good example. And you might -- as they well since we do that the Fed we have a crisis what we -- you shouldn't look in 1921. They inflated the finance World War I. And we had to have the correction which is right and proper we should have a correction."

" And it was then hands off and one year it was it was over with. They Hoover and Roosevelt felt like they had they were compelled."

" Politically to get involved in now we're doing that holds that we're doing worse than ever we're doing it even worse than Japan did after the 1989 so there on an --"

" To bail out everybody and prop up bad debt instead of liquidating -- you gotta get rid of mistakes you gotta make the corrections."

" So yes they created the problem they are compounding the problem but most of the inflationary bubble was not created by Bernanke was who it was created. By Greenspan."

" Right let's say you blame the do them the finger gets pointed Greenspan and that's why. -- in the chair what do think should happen to them you think you'll be reappointed or should he be reappointed as Fed --"

" Probably yeah I it doesn't matter to me you're not getting anybody else that can be managed central economics at all what's what whatsoever so. So that's that's not going to be any benefit to us just to change it now."

" Yards and I think you're -- reappointment. Fair enough so. Bernanke by the way speaking out on the Senate side of the capitol congressman Paul of Texas joins us from Capitol Hill today and he was part of the testimony in the questioning and and answer session yesterday. You know congress before we we let you go there's a couple by the mean -- once you win on health care we had a big debate about an earlier this show. I -- as your vote going to get out of this health care bill."

" Well I'm not going to vote to expand the role of government and healthcare they've ruined it just like it Federal Reserve ruin our financial system. That we had I government involved in education. In medicine you know in them a major way since the early 1970s. We have Medicare and Medicaid we have veterans' benefits we have. Organized the and its planned medical care managed care since the 1970s."

" It's a disaster costs have gone up quality has gone down and now what we want to do is give us more government."

" And and that's not the solution at all we we need to believe."

" Once again that free markets can work free people can solve problems that governments cause mischief governments have caused."

" All the bureaucracy that caused the high cost. Medical care. And so why why resort to the part of medical care that we we need -- to -- you can find all kinds of complaints from Medicare patients Medicaid patients."

" And it veterans hospitals and yet we want to. You know -- a virtualized it that system and punish the people who are quite happy is sort of like -- TARP funds punish the people who were prudent."

" And they reward the people who were making boondoggle is out of their speculation so --"

" We could get test data that we're doing the same thing I would be very interesting that said that two people on more than TV but that that people that are so well thought out on certain issues as you clearly are many of these issues particularly monetary policy -- spoken about. Over the years can disagree so much in other words that we can have somebody -- yesterday. That can see it completely from the other side -- you see it. This way. And this whole idea of less government involvement which is obviously you know getting a lot of attraction of late. It is it you know some people that have camped for years Alan Greenspan he criticized him you know had for many years been noticed that the free market economist Simon who. Championed deregulation hands off he's come out in recent years is that you know what that wasn't totally ride you know -- My thinking wasn't right on that. What did you think when someone like Greenspan who'd been on your side I would think a lot of these issues it said you know what I was wrong these free markets don't always work the right way."

" Well I think he got infected with some bug by Linda is speaking inside the beltway to -- Are being driven by the establishment because I Al I -- told this personally do you think he wrote in the 1960s. About the gold and tie -- major criticism of the Fiat and now. Inflation which would dates. Well from the innocent middle class and he was right he was absolutely right he. He talked a lot like an Austrian economist at but he rejected that he became a keynesian."

" And it isn't Greenspan alone because of problems the fact that."

" That they -- the world basically is called -- or rather than leases over these many years. And we've gotten ourselves in this trouble but right now though the undercurrent. Is that. Free market economics is alive and well the numbers are growing pains in his in his DN justice. Communism socialism died in the last century and that right now we're in the midst of things but it will be proven."

" That. Economic planning and that inflation is them. And central banking."

" It's a it's a failure and we're paying the price that this is going to go on for awhile because we're only in the early stages of the correction -- have to happen."

" Are we ought to run congressman who we always appreciate the back and forth congressman Ron Paul thank you very much thank you. Republican out of Texas or public -- libertarian at a Texas all right. Quick break fox this is dot com live -- will be back and we will also be back to talk about a new technology. That did maybe helping us do our jobs. Despite this is about a month."

" Bars Amy whet that knowledge web dot -- is joining us now we want to get -- to -- because we're a little limited on time but we have so many questions from our viewers on the board a lot of different times about different technology whether it's. How to set -- a Twitter account or. How added that fit their own web site and you're website provides some support for that so why -- introduce my -- your your business fits. Sure thing it's really great to be here especially because I think that the forum at the show is is on this is really where what happened so it's realism. -- opportunity here. Definitely and so knowledge -- was really conceived as a place for people. To learn about social media learn about the changing in emerging technologies. On and to do so -- really you know friendly environment one that's not threatening we deal with a lot of C level executives -- CEO's -- all the time. And there find themselves in position positions now where -- on board meetings about it later heard Rangel and one of the -- have to ask people what it is."

" What and one of the things that they often say probably you probably knows better than I would but often people haven't been they've could be Twitter could be faced the committee kind of social media as they say. Al what what I need that for our I don't you know I I don't I don't I -- nothing's going on so you then my third goal must be to say -- here's why you need it. So what -- have you found for social media networking. Social media in business."

" While -- something you know Twitter is really popular now. But it's going to be some planted at some point -- something else because. There were tools and and website speaking before -- Twitter that that a lot of the same things so our whole point with knowledge lab is to provide people. With the basic knowledge and understanding of what these networks are how they work and why they work. So that they can keep up with the -- on because it's not it Twitter is not the end all be although it's a very convenient marketing and communications tool. But you know anybody working in communications in media and corporations they have to understand. What the tools are so that they can keep up as the technology continues to change we're at a point now where that look you've got this fantastic show. That's only accessible through the web and you know somebody doesn't understand how to get on to that site they're going to miss out on her you know all these great interviews that you're doing so. It's it's more important than ever on -- Start to really keep track of what these networks are. Even if you if you try it once -- you're never going to use it again. At least some of the lexicon in the basic understanding -- so I SharePoint with knowledge -- anybody -- there's if that we can do we can get into the nitty gritty of it because of besides your website homepage don't -- attack it's a great -- how to work. How does that work so the membership -- site you have to become a member and we've created a special code for all of your viewers today it's listen to them and coupon if they sign and with the discount code Fox Business fact capital letters all one word on -- they'll get it one more they'll get a 30% discount and that's just for the people watching watching this broadcast. But basically we have -- lessons that are self directed we've got more than a 150 of them on everything you could possibly imagine. Where you go in and and it's a standardized template you know you know how long lessons and take. You'll get a really clear explanation of what it is we're talking about an activity at the end our goal was -- You know make it's that you were sitting next to a friend knows a lot about technology and they just giving you straight talk on on how to use this stuff."

" But how much honestly the only having our viewers -- discount but of what how what's the price range on these things usually price range is 400 that membership."

" There's an annual membership -- 129 dollars to manually -- that we charge. Right. And so I think it works out to be about 8045 dollars for your viewers who said."

" And that's I mean that's a -- because that as -- a lot different things that. You know deeply -- on if they if they have a question now that the lesson is there's someone that they can call in case they don't get it the first time around his I think that would be my case the where you -- like you hit a certain point and you can't."

" At that point you know and -- it after. I totally don't you mean we have some experts on staff and our experts use side just like you're using right now. And we use the same live chat tool and we have live chats throughout the week. In fact we've got to today after this broadcast one on the ins and outs of Twitter and the other one on audio tools and technologies that every corporation needs to know about. On and so that's it that's a chance to connect with us directly. We also have discussion forums which we actually call -- rooms on in the idea there is to again you can do this anonymously. Post your questions on even close more that you're here you know projects that you're working on. You get direct feedback within 24 hours both from our community and also from the experts. That's still doesn't satisfy you we've created a situation where you can reach out and call one of us directly. And look at the answer to whatever it is that you need so it's one stop shopping for all of all of the potential education could possibly want about this technology. In a really nice environment. You know it's it's straight talk. And our our mission really is to help people we don't want that move away from their core competency we just want them to engage with the."

" Challenging -- could nothing. -- given a shot perhaps get a discount on Fox Business thank you Amy if anything they look. I'm very much that are RC manager net who's Twitter access more than we have you could sign up there buddy Harris. Get on there follow that stage that 83 -- just post photos and at this stage netted her. Anyway we'll be back."

" I haven't -- in my camera and I thought the only time that these quiet."

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