Special Guests: Carolyn Kepcher - Carolyn & Co. CEO

NEIL CAVUTO, FBN HOST: Well now there are tapes on the day the Italian authorities confirmed another five deaths from that cruise ship disaster. Now 11 killed in all, two dozen still missing. The captain under house arrest.

The government today releasing this audio of the Coast Guard pleading with that captain to return to the ship.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go. Call me when you are on board. My air rescue team is there. He is at the bow, get going. There already corpses, Catino. Move.

How many dead are there? I don't know. One I'm aware of. One I've heard of.

You need to be telling me this. Christ.

But you are aware it's dark and we cannot see anything.

What do you want? To go back home, Catino? It's dark, and you want to go back home. Get on the bow of the ship and tell me what can be done, how many people there are and what do they need, now!


CAVUTO: They are telling the captain to get back to his ship.

Leadership expert and former "Apprentice" judge Carolyn Kepcher says at sea, as on land, in politics, as in business, a good leader is crucial.

And we don't know everything that happened here, Carolyn, but it would appear that this captain was not that.

CAROLYN KEPCHER, CAROLYN & CO. CO-FOUNDER: Well, it doesn't look good, does it? But I will say, everything that we've ever learned in Leadership 101 I think we can basically just take and throw out of window with this guy.

CAVUTO: But, you know, what's the first thing you have to do? Let's say you are in the middle of a disaster? Everything is falling around you.

We do know the captain of the Titanic that he decided -- he could have gotten off the ship. He decided to go down with the ship.

But there are bigger lessons here. What are they?

KEPCHER: Well, the test of real leader is somebody who can react in a time of crisis. And not only is it a time of crisis, he originated this crisis. You take a leader -- there's accountability. There's integrity, competency.

He has shown none of these. And he ran in the flight of crisis. What is he teaching people? What are people looking at him -- those who were on board with him in the face of this crisis, what gas he taught them as a leader? Nothing.

CAVUTO: What if people -- I always try to give the benefit of the doubt to people. Maybe, you know, they just snapped. I remember being around this building on 9/11. And a lot of people I thought were the Rock of Gibraltar just folded like a cheap suit. I mean, they just went to pieces. That's certainly understandable.

And then other people I worked with who I would expect wouldn't come in if they had a hangnail, they were like incredible, like statues. They were just so stern and tough.

KEPCHER: Yeah, but we're talking about --

CAVUTO: I know this is different in that sense. But what happens when a crisis hits? We have one of two ways to react; right?

KEPCHER: OK, we can react as someone who is a CEO. There's CEOs who are responsible for 4,200 jobs. This man was responsible for 4,200 lives.

You know, don't apply for the job if this is something that you can't handle in pressure.

CAVUTO: That's actually a very powerful thought. I mean, if that's what comes with the territory -- with CEOs and those in leadership positions, when everything hits the fan -- I think of Johnson & Johnson in the early '80s with the Tylenol scandal -- that CEO at the time could have just said, well, this was a guy who was tainting Tylenol capsules. I had nothing to do with that. I can absolve myself of that. It's not my fault some nut got his hands on these capsules and started, you know, pumping cyanide into them. That's not my doing.

But he didn't do that. He took those capsules off the market, replaced them with caplets. In the end, Tylenol then got a bigger share of the pain reliever market than it had before. Those type are few and far between, aren't they?

KEPCHER: He did the right thing. That's called accountability and he's taking care of his business. There's something -- leaders make mistakes. Clearly, he made a mistake and he went off track. He could have at least tried to fix the situation at hand.

You know, I'm not saying he could have been a hero. But if he stayed on course and did what he was supposed to do, and got everybody evacuated -- and there's a good possibility perhaps he could have. But now here's somebody that's looking at manslaughter, because he ran.

CAVUTO: It's amazing. It's amazing. It's a lot more frantic when you hear it in the native Italian. If you know Italian, it's much more dramatic. Carolyn, thank you very much. Good seeing you again.

KEPCHER: Thank you, Neil.

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